Legislature(1999 - 2000)
06/05/2000 01:45 PM Senate ASC
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
JOINT ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE
June 5, 2000
1:45 p.m.
SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Tim Kelly, Co-Chair
Senator Drue Pearce
Senator Pete Kelly
Senator Loren Leman
HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Eldon Mulder, Co-Chair
Representative Lisa Murkowski
PUBLIC MEMBERS PRESENT
Alan Walker
Jake Lestenkoff (via teleconference)
Dean Owen (via teleconference)
George Vakalis (via teleconference)
John Hoyt
OTHERS PRESENT
Representative Gail Phillips
Representative Sharon Cissna
Janice Nielson, US Army Pacific Legislative Liaison
WITNESS REGISTER
Mr. Paul Fuhs
PO Box 20664
Juneau, AK 99802
Mr. Michael Keene
Anchorage Economic Development Corporation
550 W. 7th Ave.
Anchorage, AK
Mr. Larry Crawford
Anchorage Economic Development Corporation
550 W. 7th Ave.
Anchorage, AK
Mr. Mead Treadwell
Institute of the North
Alaska Pacific University
PO Box 101700
Anchorage, AK 99510
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 00-04, SIDE A
Number 001
CO-CHAIR TIM KELLY called the Joint Armed Services Committee
(JASC) meeting to order at 1:45 p.m. Committee members present
were Co-Chairs Tim Kelly and Eldon Mulder, Senator Pete Kelly,
Senator Loren Leman, Representative Lisa Murkowski, Jake
Lestenkoff, John Hoyt, George Vakalis and Dean Owen. Also in
attendance were Representatives Sharon Cissna and Gail Phillips,
and Janice Neilsen, U.S. Army Pacific Legislative Liaison.
CO-CHAIR MULDER thanked Mr. Nelson for arranging the morning
meeting with the U.S. Corps of Engineers. He announced that the
purpose of today's meeting is to review the past visit to Alaska
by Lt. General Kadish and Major General Nance and to update
members on logistics and military functions occurring this
summer. The committee will also discuss the formation of the
Citizens' Advisory Commission.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
SENATOR LEMAN moved to approve the minutes of the April 6, 2000
meeting. There being no objection, the minutes were approved.
INTRODUCTION OF GUESTS
CO-CHAIR KELLY noted that Paul Fuhs, Larry Crawford, and Mike
Keene were present.
TRIP REPORT
MR. CHRIS NELSON, staff director to the Joint Armed Services
Committee, informed committee members that Lt. General Ron
Kadish, the program officer for the Ballistic Missile Defense
Organization, and Major General Willy Nance, the project officer
for National Missile Defense, lead a team that visited Alaska to
inspect sites on May 1-3. JASC member George Vakalis was
instrumental in arranging a successful dinner for them upon their
arrival in Anchorage with Mayor Mystrom, Chancellor Gorsuch and a
great cross-section of the Anchorage community. The following
morning they attended a series of classified briefings at Clear
Air Force Base and then traveled to Fairbanks where they received
a tremendous reception. The group then toured the prison
footprint cantonment area, the reactor, and the launch facility
at Ft. Greeley. Lt. General Kadish and Major General Nance
thoroughly inspected the family support facilities at Ft. Greeley
and attended a community forum hosted by the Delta City Council
and an evening reception hosted by President Hamilton of the
University of Alaska. The following day the Alaska Air National
Guard transported them to Shemya for a tour. In three days, Lt.
General Kadish and Major General Nance were able to look at the
key sites for national missile defense in Alaska at Clear, Ft.
Greeley, and Shemya.
MR. NELSON said that Lt. General Kadish's and Major General
Nance's responses to the tour were very positive. They are
prepared to begin work as soon as they get the "green light."
They anticipate President Clinton will decide in favor of the
deployment readiness review. Once that decision is made, they
will keep to a very fast schedule to make sure the country gets a
ballistic missile defense system built quickly. He emphasized
that Lt. General Kadish's and Major General Nance's feedback
about the sites they visited and their reception in Alaska was
very enthusiastic. The communities of Anchorage, Fairbanks and
Delta showed overwhelming community support and demonstrated the
remarkable relationship Alaska has with the members of the armed
forces who serve here.
MR. JAKE LESTENKOFF commented it appears that Ft. Greeley has
been selected as the site for the operations. He asked where the
issue of the prison at Ft. Greeley stands.
CO-CHAIR MULDER replied the status of the prison at Ft. Greeley
is very uncertain at this point in time. Senator Stevens put a
rider in an appropriations bill that allows the Department of
Defense (DOD) the first opportunity to use the facilities at the
cantonment area. It appears he did that because of concerns
expressed about cost overruns. That action put the prison issue
on the "back burner." He thought it was fair to say that if the
national missile defense system goes forward, the prison will
not.
MR. NELSON added that many contingencies could be triggered by
various decisions. The City of Delta must submit its application
for its economic development conveyance by October 1. The City
has been discussing the option of developing a prison site
outside of the cantonment area. The City may receive title to
some property that it can offer to a developer for the prison
site.
MR. NELSON noted one concern is that locating the national
missile defense system at Ft. Greeley could trigger the kind of
criticisms that resulted from the Kelly and McClellan Air Force
Base controversies regarding privatization. One issue raised at
the Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC) conference in Boston was
that the housing area at Ft. Buchanan in Puerto Rico was closed
in the 1995 BRAC round. Ft. Greeley was realigned during that
same BRAC round. The Ft. Buchanan housing area was then
withdrawn for BRAC disposal because the military designated it as
a housing area for Southern Command based in Panama. The tenant
agency in the Panama Canal, Headquarters U.S. Southern Command,
was then moved to Puerto Rico, subsequent to the BRAC decision.
MR. NELSON stated DOD recognized that a new mission, unforeseen
by any of the BRAC commissions, should make maximum use of
existing military facilities even if those facilities are on the
BRAC list. Because the realignment of the Headquarters U.S.
Southern Command created a requirement for housing, the housing
area at Ft. Buchanan was made available. Under that kind of
scenario, putting national missile defense, a mission that did
not exist in 1995, into Ft. Greeley does not seem likely to raise
the same kind of criticism. The activities that were realigned,
the Northern Warfare Training Center and the Cold Regions Test
Center, will be relocated at Ft. Wainwright. The national
missile defense system is a brand new activity with a mandate
from Congress to make maximum use of existing facilities. It is
likely to follow the model of Ft. Buchanan. Senator Stevens has
put money in the defense appropriations bill specifically
identifying Ft. Greeley as available to support national missile
defense with its existing infrastructure.
CO-CHAIR KELLY asked if Ft. Greeley has been decommissioned but
might resurface as a whole new national missile defense base.
MR. NELSON replied that is a possibility. He noted Lt. General
Costello, the commanding general of the Space and Missile Defense
Command, if Ft. Greeley is selected, will run the national
missile defense base. He and Mr. Owen will be attending the
Association of the U.S. Army symposium scheduled at the end of
the week and will ask Lt. General Costello many questions about
his plans. They will report back to the committee at the next
meeting.
MR. LESTENKOFF asked where the U.S. Army fits into the Ft.
Greeley plan.
MR. NELSON replied the issue of whether Ft. Greeley will remain
part of the U.S. Army Alaska or whether it will be taken over by
the U.S. Army Space and Missile Defense Command is a key decision
that will have to be made in the process. A number of players
are involved in national missile defense. It is part of the
Ballistic Missile Defense Organization, which manages the
development of the entire system. The operators of that system
will be the U.S. Army Space and Missile Defense Command through
the Alaska Army National Guard. The groups will be clarifying
the command relationships on this project.
MR. VAKALIS commented there are pros and cons to who will own and
operate the base at Ft. Greeley and who will be the tenant. His
gut reaction is that the government will get more bang for the
buck if it is owned by the Space and Missile Defense Command with
a proviso that all of the lands under military control around Ft.
Greeley be preserved and managed for training. He stated that
training area is one of the biggest assets Alaska has for the
military. He believes that ownership by the Space and Missile
Defense Command would be advantageous because if this project
goes forward at Ft. Greeley, the Space Command would have more
say about how much money will be pumped into Ft. Greeley and the
outlying areas, such as Shemya and Clear. He suggested that the
JASC prepare an action plan to determine whether that is the way
to go and to influence that decision.
CO-CHAIR KELLY noted national missile defense will be a growth
industry with a virtually unlimited budget while other defense
dollars are being fought over.
MR. LESTENKOFF agreed.
CO-CHAIR KELLY asked if the prison will be history if all of this
comes about.
MR. NELSON replied the prison, as a reuse of the existing
cantonment area, would be overtaken by the Space and Missile
Defense Command. Whether a prison is built on surplus property
at Ft. Greeley is an open question. He believes the legislation
enacted by the Alaska Legislature that allows the City of Delta
to sole source a contract specified the use of the cantonment
area and reuse facilities. He asked whether that legislation
specifically precluded other property from development.
CO-CHAIR MULDER answered the statute would have to be modified.
MR. NELSON reminded members that the sole source contract is the
key matter of controversy and contention in the City of Delta
right now. One of the problems is that, in terms of the BRAC
time line and the start-up of national missile defense in Ft.
Greeley, an 18 month void will occur and Delta will crater
economically during that period. In addition, the national
missile defense system will not provide job-for-job replacement
in Delta. That system is not as labor intensive as the previous
units. Army-wide, there has been a shift in the DOD in the way
military installations are being operated. The civilian civil
service workforce, heavily populated by military retirees, is
being phased out around the world and replaced by private
contractors. It is likely that the management of the facilities
at Ft. Greeley will be picked up by a private contractor,
possibly a Native corporation.
MR. OWEN agreed with Mr. Vakalis that Space Command money would
be great in Ft. Greeley but he expressed concern that the JASC be
careful that, for the future of the growth of the military in
Alaska, an ironclad arrangement be made giving all of the
military forces that come to Alaska to train unrestricted use of
that training area.
CO-CHAIR MULDER noted that Mead Treadwell joined the committee.
He then asked General Hoyt to give a brief recap of the
Association of the United States Army (AUSA) meeting.
MR. JOHN HOYT informed JASC members that the Pacific region
meeting of AUSA was held in Alaska on June 1 and 2. The Pacific
region includes Korea, Japan, Hawaii and Alaska. General
Sullivan attended the conference and spoke to about 200 people in
Ft. Wainwright and Ft. Richardson the previous week. AUSA is
very interested in the defense logistics business. General
Sullivan will be talking to the Department of Logistics' staff
about getting involved in this particular issue and holding a
joint symposium on defense logistics in Anchorage. The AUSA
conference was very successful and he was re-elected as regional
president for another two years.
C0-CHAIR MULDER asked Paul Fuhs to speak to JASC members about
the Anchorage Defense Logistics Initiative.
MR. PAUL FUHS acknowledged the presence of Mr. Michael Keene of
the Anchorage Economic Development Corporation and stated at the
last meeting they informed JASC members of the need to do a study
to quantify the benefits that Anchorage could provide as a
military logistics center in the United States. The legislative
finance committees appropriated $150,000 for that study and he
and Mr. Keene have raised more than $50,000 to match that
appropriation. A steering committee has been formed, consisting
of all of the people who contributed to the study, including the
Municipality of Anchorage (MOA) and the Fairbanks North Star
Borough. The Alaska Department of Transportation and Public
Facilities (DOTPF) has been very supportive in terms of providing
data and Commissioner Perkins has been briefed along the way.
Commissioner Oates of the Department of Military and Veterans
Affairs (DMVA) will be overseeing the study and the work will
proceed on July 1. The study must be completed by October in
order to be presented to the Quadrennial Defense Review Team for
its analysis. He and Mr. Keene will visit Washington, D.C. from
June 18-20 to reconfirm the scope of the contract with DOD and to
make sure the right questions are answered by the study. A fairly
extensive amount of data from local companies is available for
the study. A lot of logistics material is traveling through
Anchorage at this time but military personnel are unaware of how
it is distributed out of Anchorage. Data is also available for
the entire sea-air operation in which supplies are brought to
Anchorage on an ocean container and flown out for delivery. The
study will not be entirely theoretical because data on current
activities is available.
MR. FUHS said he and Mr. Keene will be meeting with Senator
Stevens' staff and DOD staff to arrange a meeting in Alaska of
high level logistics people. A key concept in the logistics
initiative is that it somewhat overarches BRAC because the
logistics initiative is based on finding efficiencies in the
private sector.
MR. KEENE informed JASC members that the Anchorage logistics
initiative interfaces very well with what DOD is trying to do
with privatization. Old style military depots do not fit with
today's technology. The steering committee met last Thursday for
the first time. It expects to sign a contract with the
consultant in about 2½ weeks and the study will begin on July 1.
The length of the contract with the consultant will last about
six months so that the consultant can help make presentations and
do marketing work after the study is completed. He thanked JASC
members for their help in securing the appropriation.
CO-CHAIR KELLY asked if this project is contingent upon
developing Fire Island.
MR. FUHS replied the project is not tied to Fire Island at all.
Fire Island represents some undeveloped property. Anchorage has
a shortage of developable land, and most of what is available is
not in large, contiguous parcels. About 700 acres of developable
land are located at the airport; some of that acreage is
designated wetlands so environmental permits would have to be
secured for its use.
CO-CHAIR KELLY asked if the project will include a large
warehouse that planes will fly in and out of, similar to the
FedEx depot.
MR. KEENE said the Anchorage International Airport already has a
great deal of the necessary infrastructure. Most transport will
be done by commercial aircraft. The military is primarily
looking at having private sector and third party logistics
handlings. The military does not want its personnel to be
tracking and tracing products because the private sector has that
process down to a science. Military planes would not go in and
out of Anchorage International Airport except perhaps during a
time of conflict. Most international U.S. airlines and domestic
airlines already have agreements with the military for contracts
to move freight and passengers.
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI asked what the time line for a decision
will be after the report is presented to the Quadrennial Defense
Review Team.
MR. FUHS replied it takes about one year for the Quadrennial
Defense Review Team to complete its review. The contractor hired
to do the study will analyze how the review process went after it
is completed. This review will be the second Quadrennial
Defense Review to occur. The steering committee wants to know
what the Quadrennial Defense Review Team identified as the
savings to the military from an Anchorage logistics initiative
and how it will fit in with the military's mission. The steering
committee would also like to see if a lot of the review focusses
on contracting for parts, supplies and manufacturing. The
Quadrennial Defense Review Team uses a system called "metrics" to
score contractor proposals on certain aspects. The steering
committee wants response time to be considered as a metric so
that if a Boeing C-17 cargo plane is used and Boeing provides
maintenance, parts and service in Anchorage, points are awarded
for the faster response time.
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI asked if the JASC or the Legislature can
participate in any way to make the review more favorable.
MR. FUHS said the fact that the Legislature established the JASC
and is supportive of the military in Alaska is helpful. He asked
JASC members who travel to Washington, D.C. this summer to
arrange to meet with military contacts.
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI suggested the JASC sponsor a resolution
supporting the development of the logistics initiative in
Anchorage.
CO-CHAIR MULDER indicated the study will show Alaska's strengths.
MR. KEENE added that in answer to Co-Chair Kelly's question, the
steering committee is not looking to have a new warehouse built
at the airport because six or more warehouses are presently
operated by third party logistics handlers and, in some cases,
the actual prime source contractors for the military.
MR. FUHS pointed out that part of the contract is for
maintenance. because equipment will need to be calibrated and
tested regularly.
SENATOR LEMAN asked who the contractor is.
MR. FUHS replied "Price Waterhouse Cooper."
SENATOR LEMAN asked if the contractor will be tying in with other
local firms.
MR. KEENE stated that AEDC and the steering committee will
perform that function.
MR. FUHS said part of the data will be contributed. The
contractor wants to know the maximum fuel capacity, what
equipment is available, and the capacity made available by
combining Elmendorf and the International Airport. Mr. Crawford
expects to hire a part time employee during the next few months
to coordinate the data from local companies.
MR. KEENE said the Steering Committee will keep the JASC apprised
of developments.
AN UNIDENTIFIED COMMITTEE MEMBER asked Mr. Fuhs and Mr. Keene if
they have looked at a publication named "Joint Vision 2000." He
noted a section of the publication discusses worldwide logistics
for a total military force. He also asked if Mr. Fuhs or Mr.
Keene have found any think tanks in Washington, D.C. that have
done any logistics studies regarding the future of the military.
MR. FUHS noted that Price Waterhouse Cooper has done logistics
studies in the past which is why it has access to the whole
database and can offer a price of $200,000.
MR. KEENE pointed out that the military has been supportive of
the efforts regarding the Anchorage logistics initiative because
it believes this project comes at the right time and right place.
AN UNIDENTIFIED COMMITTEE MEMBER asked whether Mr. Fuhs and Mr.
Keene have spoken to the key players of the Pacific Region, such
as Admiral Blair.
MR. KEENE replied that he hopes to meet with Admiral Blair during
his visit to Alaska at the end of June.
CO-CHAIR MULDER thanked Mr. Fuhs and Mr. Keene and asked Mr.
Nelson to brief the committee on upcoming events.
TAPE 00-04, SIDE B
Number 0001
MR. NELSON informed committee members the AUSA symposium on
Ballistic Missile Defense will occur this week at Long Beach,
California. He and Mr. Owen will represent the committee at that
symposium. The National Association of Installation Directors'
(NAID) annual conference will be held in Monterey, California on
August 5-9. NAID focuses on BRAC and base reuse issues. NAID
has also moved forward into the area of privatization of support
services to military installations. He encouraged maximum
participation by members of the committee at the Monterey
conference because the agenda will focus on reuse of closed
bases, the potential of the next BRAC round, and opportunities to
make bases more cost competitive by streamlining operations and
contracting operations to the private sector.
CO-CHAIR MULDER asked Mr. Mead Treadwell to update the committee.
MR. MEAD TREADWELL, Institute of the North, stated his discussion
will focus on what it will take to get a favorable decision
regarding national missile defense. The four factors being
weighed by the President are the extent of the military threat,
technology, cost, and the diplomatic situation. He noted he
believes a fifth factor is politics. Regarding the threat, there
has not been much of a change. One of the biggest events
politically was that the leader of Korea traveled to China for
the first time. According to the Chinese, the Korean leader was
given a tour of computer plants to encourage the Koreans to do
something other than build missiles. A terrorism report was
released yesterday which General Oates has been very involved in.
MR. TREADWELL said regarding technology, a major test will occur
in July. The Washington Post reported a few weeks ago that a
classified military study on how sea-based missile defenses could
be done either in conjunction with or as an alternative to the
Alaska based system has been held up and was not released. John
McCain, William Safire and other public figures have suggested
dropping the Alaska-based system and forwarding the sea-based
system.
On the cost side, MR. TREADWELL said a major study was recently
released by the General Accounting Office (GAO) which estimates
the full cycle value cost of this project to be around $60
billion. That high amount will work against a land-based system.
Finally, on the diplomatic side, no change has occurred regarding
the Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) Defense Treaty. Russia's Prime
Minister Vladimir Putin urged Europeans to adopt the Russian
proposal to work with the United States to develop a mutual
missile defense system. President Clinton said he might support
that proposal but wants the sea-based, land-based issue settled
first. The Russians have been pushing for a resolution during
President Clinton's Moscow trip but President Clinton has only
agreed to meet again to discuss the ABM Treaty before he leaves
office.
MR. NELSON remarked that Governor George Bush publicly stated a
few days ago that the Administration is driving toward a hasty
decision on a political timetable and no decision would be better
than a flawed agreement that ties the hands of the next president
and prevents America from defending herself. Furthermore, he
said the approach the Administration is proposing is flawed, it
is a system initially based on a single site when experts say
more is needed. Governor Bush has not been clear about whether
he believes a land and sea based system is preferable or whether
the entire system should be reconfigured. Mr. Nelson emphasized
the need for the members of the JASC committee to try to get a
binding decision made this year and to get the Republican
presidential candidate to agree to move ahead with the Alaska
based system as a starting point.
CO-CHAIR KELLY asked if Governor Bush changed his position.
MR. NELSON stated Governor Bush does not talk on point on the
idea of a single site in Alaska. That site would comply with the
ABM Treaty if the U.S. exercises the option in the Treaty that
allows the location of the single site to be changed. Exercising
that option would be the easy way to comply with the ABM Treaty
and provide the beginning of a national missile defense system.
Bush has always taken the position that he wants more than just a
limited scope to this project as he is looking further into the
future.
MR. NELSON noted the JASC is pushing for this system right now
because North Korea created a threat when it launched a missile
over Japan two years ago. The U.S. had no way to defend its
border if that missile had reached U.S. shores, which it was
capable of doing. The JASC has stated that its advocacy of the
single site in Alaska is threat driven. The threat will not
remain limited if North Korea builds its missile to completion
and it will build many to sell. In response to the comment that
building a new system will trigger a new arms race, Mr. Nelson
said a ballistic missiles arms race has been going on for the
last five years; the United States however, is still in the
"locker room." Bush's position is to build a more robust system
that envisions an increasing threat. The JASC believes the
Alaska system counters the immediate threat that is unarguable
and is the first building block of a more robust system if
diplomacy fails.
CO-CHAIR KELLY asked whether an Alaska missile field could
protect Russia from missiles.
MR. TREADWELL said it could cover a significant portion of
Europe. He noted the ideal system would have more than one land-
based site and a sea-based site to catch missiles upon launch.
Prime Minister Putin picked up on that in his proposal last week.
He said one can easily argue that Alaska is one of the best
places in the world to locate a land based system but an argument
can also be made that as we get toward a worldwide defense
umbrella, sea based systems are cheaper.
MR. NELSON asked that members bear in mind there are layers of
missile defense. The Alaska national missile ballistic defense
system is only one part of a larger system. The Navy is moving
forward with Navy Upper Tier. The Army's THAD program is now
under program review. The Israelis have deployed the first
battalion of the Arrow, their intermediate range defense system
against ballistic missiles. In addition, a program called Medium
Extended Air Defense (MEAD) is being developed with the Europeans
and the U.S. is moving forward with the development of PAC for
the Patriot system. The United States faces a threat from
intercontinental ballistic missiles, meaning the United States
must defend itself from missiles launched from other continents.
Everyone else, including the Russians, faces a more immediate
threat from intermediate range and theater ballistic missiles,
which there are more of. He believes that the Russian attitude
toward missile defense will change radically the moment an
Iranian Shehab 3, purchased from North Korea, slams into their
troops in Chechnya and that could happen any day. At that point
in time, the Russians are going to get very serious about missile
defense and will be looking for systems.
MR. HOYT commented that his analysis of the Bush-Gore conflict is
that Bush has proposed that we go further than what the current
Administration wants. He thinks the ultimate goal of a missile
defense system is to have space-based lasers to shoot ballistic
missiles as they rise out of the ground. It will take 20 years
to get there. The land based system is the first step and will
be a backup. This train has started and will continue to roll.
MR. TREADWELL said he agrees but this debate is going to become
full-fledged this summer. President Clinton signed a statement
yesterday that further enshrined the Treaty. He suggested that
the Democrats on the Committee try to get a firm decision from
the Democratic party and likewise with the Republican party.
Governor Bush has used the word "flawed" twice when referring to
the Treaty process and the system.
MR. HOYT felt that when Governor Bush used the word "flawed" he
was talking about the concept.
MR. TREADWELL agreed but thought that clarifying Governor Bush's
position is important.
MR. HOYT pointed out that officials from AUSA are talking with
the Gore and Bush campaigns.
CO-CHAIR MULDER announced that Committee members have been
provided with background information and recommendations on
applicants for the co-chairs of the Citizens Advisory Board. He
and Co-Chair Kelly recommend that further recommendations for
applicants be sent directly to the co-chairs who will extend
invitations to participate.
MR. NELSON noted the term of office for members of the advisory
board has not been determined. Legislative members of the JASC
serve for the duration of the legislature for which they are
elected and civilian members serve for a statutory term of three
years.
CO-CHAIR KELLY said he would prefer a three year term for
advisory board members in order to allow for some continuity
during legislative transitions. He asked Mr. Nelson to schedule
a date for the JASC annual meeting. He asked committee members
to submit five or six names of nominees to the advisory
committee.
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI moved to set the terms of advisory board
members at three years. There being no objection, the motion
carried.
There being no further business to come before the committee, CO-
CHAIR MULDER adjourned the meeting at 2:50 p.m.
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